GLOUCESTER / Glevum

La deuxième colonie romaine en G. Bretagne.

Page très importante de la G. Bretagne romaine.

http://marikavel.org/angleterre/gloucestershire/gloucester/accueil.htm





JCE

What of Caer Glosgii iis, cited 'according to Camden' by John Timbs in ABBEYS, CASTLES AND ANCIENT HALLS OF ENGLAND AND WALES, 1870?

Hello awuga,

Welcome here.

Could you give us a link about that ?

According to Ekwall, and to Rivet & Smith, I said on my page that the etymology was not resolved.

Of course, any information is welcome.

You may also give your own web-site.

JCE

I visit the link you gave to me in private mail, and I took that information :

http://www.britannia.com/history/city/glos.html


-----------------

Please note that there is a Breton word : glao / glav, which means : rain. I suppose that is a Welsh word the like.

Also a word : glaou = coal.

For discussion.

JCE

Thanks for that.

The context of my ask is my page

www.awugabunnies.co.uk/8.html


The Perpetual Choirs of Britain tradition and the possibility that the River Severn was seen - by some - as the river of REVELATION 22: pure river of water of life v this 'according to Camden' "of the pure waters" (the Severn).

I don't know how to add my website to my basic details!

For the name of the River Severn, please click :

http://marikavel.org/lieux/rivieres/severn/accueil.htm

-------------

According to Rivet & Smith :

DERIVATION. No clear Celtic etymon is identifiable. The name is doubtless connected with other river-names such as Saba, Sabis > Sambre (Belgium), *Savara > Sèvre (Niortaise, Nantaise) and > Sèvres (Seine-et-Oise, France), Sabatus (a river of Bruttium) ; also *Sabrona > Old Irish Sabrann, the river of Cork (see O'Rahilly, EIHM 4). There has recently appeared at La Graufesenque a graffito Ad Sabros, perhaps the name of the river there now known as the Dourbie (REA, LXXVI (1974), 269). Rostaing ETP 243 thinks the root *sab- a pre-Indo-European water-name, but it is clear that it was taken into Celtic (British), for in addition to the present name, Savernake (Wilts.) has the same origin, and there are a few others listed by Pokorny in ZCP, XXI (1940), 121; furthermore, *-ina is a recognised Celtic suffix (see LINDINIS). According to Ross (1967) 21, Sabrina is a divine name which underlies the river-name. Pokorny in ZCP, XXI (1940), 79, proposes that the root *sab-, common in water-names, means 'Saft' and has Illyrian connections, and suggests more specifically (p. 121) an adjectival *sabro- as a basis for some of the names. This seems an entirely reasonable approach.

Accurate memory of the Romano-British name long survived. Gildas (3) writes Sabrinae (gen.), and Bede (v, 23) ultra amnein Sabrinam. This was so for some time still when Welshmen wrote Latin, even though during the later sixth ccntury initial s- became h- (the Welsh name of the river is Hafren) ; on this and on reasons why the Anglo-Saxons took over the name still with S- (Saefern), see the very detailed discussion of Jackson in LHEB 516-19 and passim; also D. Jenkins in BBCS, XXV (1973), 114-16, with a riposte by Jackson in studia Celtica, X/XI (1975-76), 44, note 1.

--------------------

JCE : It seems tome that *sab-r- is a common river name, or the one of a deity under the river Name.

See also : Humber.

--------------------

Gloucester could be 'the colonia standing by the river' = la colonie près de la rivière.

Note also a Breton adjective : gleb = wet / humide., and glebienn = wet marsh, prairie humide.

If so, we must know about the etymology of gleb.

JCE

Exactly so - and thanks.

Can I note we have found no provenance whatsoever for the Caer Glosgii iis reference Timbs says is 'according to Camden' (and also that BRITANNIA would be a useful addition to your already wonderful investigations and provenances - obviously it covers the same 'turf' but back as far as 1586 AD in editions).

Having said that, Timbs has impeccable credentials to be believed. So there's a problem there needs resolving - and I've got the British Library looking at it!

Moving on - Sabrann etc. It's not where it came from so much the use it was put to (possibly) that grabbed my attention. It is not until about Spenser, late C16th AD, that the Roman Sabrina becomes an explicit virgin, a thing reprised in Miltoin's Comus, 1634. In about 1680-1704 the Mouth of the River Severn is delineated on maps: Latitude 51.4-ish. Now the Virgin Latitude spread is 51.4-51.5 (with parthenos being 515 in gematria). Essentially, it's 360/7 won't go but all the rest 1-10 will = (british joke) it/she's not a goer!

Hafren can generate more gematria possibility - he phren, mind below, 666. Someone was playing games ...

geoff
BOF

I note from your page :

----------------

Perhaps a William Camden's BRITANNIA entry for Gloucester, might have informed someone, once-upon-a-time, however? Sitting on the eastern side of the Severn, it's name is said to derive from one Glywys or mean bright (noble / famous) place. But Camden wrote (allegedly):

" ... founders called it Glaiuon ... from Caer Glosgii iis, "the City of the pure waters".

-----------------

What founders ?

Before the Romans ?

By the Romans ?

By Romano-British ?

By Saxons ?

Is it possible to link with the Glywysing / Gleguising country of south Wales ?

JCE

David Nash Ford, of BRITANNIA ON-LINE and EARLY BRITISH KINGDOMS, credits one Glywys (of Caer Gloui) with the founding of Gl(y)wys(s)ing.

I find no conflation twixt this Glywys and the Vortigern ancestor Glovus, a legendary founder of Caer Gloui. But they look similar!

As to 'according to Camden' (Timbs) 'founders', the term given seems more Iolo Morganwg fanciful pre-Roman druidic rubbish than of any serious origin (to me, that is).

I mean, what language is the 'iis' from?

Hello,


Is Glosgii iis a complete name ? or a courrupt name ?

It looks (for me) as a Latin declension.

... if we could read Glosgii(*)iis ?

JCE

Well, I considered various things: the ii ending as a plural of ius, the gs as cs etc. but without the source Camden identified (and its editor, if such exist), then - as I say - without any corroborating authority or provenance it looks a pure invention. Lot of that about in the early C19th AD.

Whilst I'm here, what do you know of the provenance of the waters south of Ireland Roman to Columbus + times: versions of Verginian Sea/Ocean. No-one seems to have a clue where it comes from?

A thought: Glosgii is phonically pretty much Glasgi which is the prunciation of glas cau (Glasgow) in Scotland.

I know straws ... clutching at comes to mind, but the glas can provide green/grey/woad and stream ...

Rafraîchissement de la page consacrée à Gloucester / Glevum, à partir de son appellation Colonia :

Colonia Nervia (= Nerviana) Glevensium,

reprise en partie par le document de Ravenne, 106-14 : Coloneas.

-----------------

http://marikavel.org/angleterre/gloucestershire/gloucester/accueil.htm

Pour ce qui est d'une comparaison avec Glasgow, on pourrait ouvrir un autre fil sur la racine *glas ( = bleu, vert), que l'on retrouve aussi dans Glastonbury, parmi tant d'autres.

JCE

From Wikipedia Commons

JCE